Thursday, December 26, 2013

Honor the Codex: Pt. 8 Heavy Support

Here we find ourselves, in the final slot of the former FoC: the Heavy Support. Let's remember, 6th edition has added fortifications and, recently, Lords of War. So, one would expect the HS section full of potent firepower, and plenty of toys to make the Imperial Fists happy, wouldn't we? Keep reading to find out if our enthusiasm is well founded.

Devastators - Bad (Without rerolls)
Man oh man, if people thought I was too hard on Assault Marines and Speeders, I'm going to get reamed over this one. Because I'm pretty firmly convinced that Devastators are bad. First things first, I think that this is the only "heavy weapons team" in the entire game that has to buy its heavy weapons. This isn't all bad, in that it allows you to customize what the squad does, but it also means that the cost of these guys really adds up quickly. Past that, the ablative wounds you can buy to shield those expensive dudes are all but worthless when you consider that their bolters will all but completely ping off whatever target you might be hunting (and it had better be big to give them any hope of earning their points back). So, what's a marine to do? Buying the extra wounds means dudes bought just to die, and not buying them mean that your 30~ point big gun dudes die in short order. And then there's the issue of volume. Unless you bought the heavy bolters, each weapon probably only gets one shot. Yes, there's a signum in there to help tip you firmly into odds of hitting three of your shots, but every turn that you only land two, you'll curse your luck that you have such limited native access to any way to manipulate this. Finally, you'll roll to wound or penetrate armor, and the other guy will laugh and pass his cover save, or, a surprising amount of the time, you'll fail to wound or penetrate his armor. This then, is the heart of the problem with these guys. They just don't have the volume of dice or the power of rerolls on their side to reliably make their points back. Where do we get those? Without opening another book, we can play Imperial Fists, or bring Tigurius, or play Mantis Warriors. Imperial Fists isn't a bad option, and their tactics are easy to take advantage of. Tiggy lets us have relentless for a turn if we need to reposition. Mantis Warriors are from Forgeworld, and play allowance may vary. So, unless you're able to reroll those expensive shots, leave these guys in the box. They're still just too pricey to cut it. If we hadn't returned to the armory system and these guys paid about 5 points less per gun than what a tactical squad does, they'd become significantly better. But, alas, all weapons cost the same, no matter who brings them.

Devastator Centurions - Okay
Remember the problems with those guys up there? These solve almost all of them. They come with native rerolls, have wildly better durability (T5, 2W 2+? Yes please!), offer constant mobility for their impressive heavy firepower, start with heavy weapons, and can even get reasonably priced night vision and split fire.Why are these guys just okay? Because you will upgrade their twin linked heavy bolter and either bring the grav cannon with amp, or lascannon with missile launcher. This will seat the squad firmly in the ~300 point range. Which is painfully expensive. But Fists can get a lot out of them with the missile and las, and the grav weapons are vicious... if they get in range. In my opinion, the grav centurions will usually offer about as much threat for the same cost as Sternguard. They end whatever vehicle they look at, and will decimate everything that's not from codex Chaos Daemons. So, there you have it.

Thunderfire Cannon - Great
I'm going to ask you to stretch your minds for a moment, and remember back to the earlier article on the generic HQs. There was an option called a techmarine. He was okay. Well, if you double his cost, he brings a neat little piece of artillery with him, called the Thunderfire Cannon. What is it? What does it do? It shoots four multiple barrage small blasts with three separate ammunition types. The first, S6 AP5. The second, S5 AP6 ignores cover. The third, S4 AP- which forces victims into difficult terrain during their next movement phase. So, it's a durable source of barrage fire which provides reasonable horde control, and even the option to do a good enough job of forcing saves on larger models, or harass light vehicles. It does this potentially from out of LoS, or from within bolstered cover. Top it all off with the techmarine regaining IC and BotO when the cannon is slain. This is fantastic for just about any army out there and is a steal point for point as it offers a level of flexibility we've only seen with one other unit: Sternguard. The only complaint I might have is that is an expensive chunk of Finecrap.

Predator - Great
Last edition, these were cheap as chips and a trio of them made up the bread and butter of the Marine Heavy Support section (well, them and missile devs). This time around, they've received a little more rebalancing, but are generally at least as good as ever. The Destructor got 15 points more expensive, the Annihilator got 25 points cheaper, and they still provide the impressive front armor 13. The Destructor got better because you can now snap fire those heavy bolters, to grab an extra hit out of them. This lets it churn out an excellent volume of anti-infantry shots for the points (you'll knock over right about two marines a turn, and xenos tremble), as well as have a autocannon to try to plink at light and medium armor. Otherwise, the Annihilator offers what lascannon devs do for about the same amount of points, but on a tank, rather than just five Marine bodies. This still isn't any more advisable than the devs necessarily, but the fact that you have front AV 13 does a lot to offset the problem with durability that the Marines might have, even if it comes at the cost of any manner of access to Tank Hunter. If you're playing Rhino rush (or just mechanized marines in general), you really must consider bringing a Destructor. They're really just about everything you could want in a tank, even if they can't answer other main battle tanks.

Whirlwind - Bad
So, this is short sweet and to the point. If you save a couple points on the TFC, you become a rhino chassis (ick) and shoot a single barrage large blast (which always scatters, ick) which is either a heavy bolter shot, or a bolter that ignores cover. Why would we take this when the TFC is so good (more durable, accurate, and versatile)? I don't know.

Vindicator - Bad
I wish I didn't have to say this, but the Vindicator is bad. It's short ranged, and only has side AV 11 (strange considering the extra plates that up armor the sides). Past that, it unfortunately has the problem of firing a large blast that still allows cover. If you land the magic hit, you'll realize that your foe has spread out to their 2" cohesion and you'll kill a model. Maybe two. It works well enough as an anti-tank platform, but again, that low side armor paired with that short range is killer. Quite frankly, the Vindicator wouldn't appear quite as bad if the Leman Russ Demolisher didn't exist, or if marines couldn't easily gain access to it. But it does and they can, so that's that.

Hunter - Bad
So, we have a single shot plasma gun mounted on a 12/12/10, and it isn't even truly twin linked. Plus, it comes strapped with perma skyfire. If you need anti-air, bring the little bird and drown your foes in dice. Because though the bird costs twice as much, it's easily twice as flexible. Yes, you can use your single shot weapon on skimmers, but you'll probably only knock a hull point off a wave serpent (forbidding their jink), which really isn't enough for your cost. Against FMCs, you're wounding on about as many 2s as 3s, which is a little odd, but most of those will have another save to take against you (just like the drake). So, please please oh please do not take this tank. I'm begging you.

Stalker - Bad
On the Hunter chassis there's another tank, this one with a quad gun on its back. But it doesn't have interceptor. It's less flexible and less durable. Why would you take this in a valuable HS slot when the fortification slot can have an Aegis with quad? I really can't say. If it had interceptor, or toggle skyfire, that'd be another story, but alas, 'tis not to be. No, not even the novelty of split fire saves this guy.

Land Raiders
Godhammer - Okay
Crusader & Redeemer - Bad
I debated breaking this into a separate section for each variant, but in the end, decided that talking about one of them involves too much talking about the other two in order to justify three paragraphs. First things first, you should probably only be reading about these guys if you wanted to bring a unit where I mentioned the Land Raider Tax. Why should that be the only reason to look at them? For starters, two variants are bad and the third has two twin linked lascannons with no out to tank hunters. The lascannon toting variant saves you a scant few points over a pair of predator annihilators, and offers little to justify that hike. If you're taking one, you'll have to utilize the carrying capacity to justify it.

Then we'll remember what we're bringing in it. Either dudes who strike at I1 (hammernators) or dudes with grenades (anything else). If they already have grenades, why pay to have your tank use grenades? If they're going to strike at I1 anyway, why bother? These are the first problems with the Crusader and the Redeemer. Their second problems are that their guns suck for completely different reasons. The Crusader has Hurricane Bolters. When was the last time that snap fire did much of anything (because you'll be primary firing the AssCan and Multi-Melta)? The Redeemer has Flamestorm cannons (S6 AP3 Templates). Why oh why would you want to burn down your charge range? Yes, each of these transports has more carrying capacity than the Godhammer, but that in and of its self is a bit of a trap, because it encourages spending too much in one place, especially when more than 5 hammernators are overkill anyway usually. The Godhammer gets a pass because it offers durable transport, even if at a steep price, all while giving you the better parts of a predator. Just remember, taking one means you'll be more inclined to play to the assault phase (because whee ramps) and that's something tricky to do at present, especially for a shooting focused codex.

Stormraven Gunship - Okay
And at long last we come to the final entry for the Heavy Support section: the Stormraven. Big Bird. And at the end of the day, it's alright. Box 12 is about the most durable flyer in the game (lack of invulnerable save notwithstanding), and the capacity is unparalleled. You can bring 12 guys and/or a dreadnought of any type,  both of which have access to parachutes in your movement phase if the other guy has an answer to your flyer, or assault ramps if they didn't knock you down. Don't let the name deceive you. Though this is akin to a flying predator, the transport capacity on this guy is mostly amazing. Bringing a dreadnought is a bit of a trap (Ironclads want drop pods, remember), and the assault ramps are deceiving (boo stupid turn three assaults), but this does what the Vandetta does in terms of telling your opponent "Hey, there's a troops choice here scoring this objective and earning linebreaker, deal with them or lose". Add the whole "flying predator" notion to it since it has thunder hammer missiles mated with a twin linked lascannon, and either a twin linked multi melta or typhoon missile launcher (no, you don't buy the hurricanes or plasma cannons), and this guy is solid enough to warrant at least a look for those armies which want to include it, or for players who bought the model before the price hike. You've gotta play smart and kill your opponents answers to it if you want to see it really shine, but that's just one of the downsides for the volume of efficiency you get out of it. It's not for every list or player, but I'd encourage at least a playtest of one.

The Heavy Support section, despite being so heavy-laden with options, is so light on gems which are truly valuable to lists. Those which exist are superb, but they're fairly basic and straightforward. Nevertheless, utilizing the Heavy Support section is integral to solid list construction, and victory. We'll see you back here after the New Year to finish the "extra codex" options that are available to Marines in terms of Lords of War, Forgeworld options, and fortifications. See you here!


  1. I'd argue that if you're going to lump two out of the three Land Raiders as bad, you should lump them all as "bad" across the board, especially the Godhammer.

    You made some good points up there, but the Godhammer is just too damn schitzophrenic to use in a game - it really doesn't know what to do on the table; either run at people or provide long-range Lascannon fire.

    The Redeemer and Crusader at least have larger transport capacity, and again as you said you'll be taking these boxes as a 'Land Raider Tax' - for which you can do a whole lot worse than an Assault Cannon/Multi-Melta Redeemer that saves you 10pts to give a Sarge somewhere a combi-weapon.

    Personally, I don't think Landraiders are great, but the Godhammer is the worst out of the three for sure...

  2. The lascannon doesn't become less potent as you drive closer to the foe, and AV14 continues to become something that some armies simply don't plan for. That in and of its self means that at least one of these is okay, especially considering some of their cargo options: namely Honor Guard and Hammernators.

    The extra carrying capacity of the other two is a trap, and will lead you to believe you need to fill it. 5 Hammernators OR your chapter master with Honor Guard are plenty killy without needing to fill more than 10 slots. The Crusader and the Godhammer cost the same. The assault cannon is really not that great. It's good at anti-infantry fire, but lousy against tanks, and crowd control is something the contents should have locked down.

  3. Don't agree on the centurions at all. Grav centurions are terrifying to the meta and fairly durable with you hq being a Libby storm shield soaking wounds. T5 on the squad.

    Predators I think you give too much credit to though. If they shoot twice in a game ur lucky ur points if u want an auto cannon are better spent on a dread double the shots twin link risk it dying a tad easier and filling elites which honestly what would u rather take?

    Land raiders are hilarious right now because of the meta but the god hammer is by far the worse with the redeemer being the best because POTMS allows u to shoot that other template turn 2 at wtf ever u want

  4. Grav centurions are terrifying. But expensive. And subject to being kited by the big scary stuff in the game right now. This is what knocks them to "okay".

    Predators are versatile and flexible, and yes, you'd rather take them than the dread because your elite slot is where your Sternguard and LotD are and those are amazing.

    Land raiders are silly in the meta, but their firepower just feels so underwhelming. Yes, you need PotMS to get to shoot your two flame templates (heaven forbid a single unit is in range of both without you having to move), but even then it's tricky to disembark and nail that charge whilst still shooting the flamers.

  5. Don't apologize. Lengthy discussions are much appreciated!

    Hammernators are only slowed down by massive fearless pits, like gaunts/gants. Otherwise, they ought bash through, win combat, and push the other guy off the table. It doesn't take a lot of wounds caused in CC to win when you're impossible to kill, and the only things that will stop you from battering through is Fearless/Stubborn. Yes, ATSKNF keeps them from getting swept, but you can't sweep anyway, so what's it matter? All you're looking to do is toss them off the table, whatever that may mean.

    I understand the sentiment of a non-Godhammer LR clearing the chaff for hammernators, but it's just not super necessary. The rest of your army carries bolt weaponry (predators included), and should be able to handle that for you.

  6. Good good, I know I have a tendency to go on a bit!

    See I'd still disagree there - on paper you're correct, but in practice the Hammernators just don't have enough attacks to batter through larger units. They're quite capable of turning a Tactical Squad into floor paint, as well as mulching any of the units I mentioned in my previous post, but mathematically the two attacks isn't doing much for you; on average, you're going to be hitting on 4s. Assuming you don't charge for the sake of discussion, you're averaging one hit per bloke. Out of those five hits, assume that the dice gods will cause one roll to fluff and come up '1' - that's four wounds, not even enough to kill a Combat Squad.

    On a brighter note, if we be more generous they could quite happily cause between 5-7 wounds with ease, presuming the dice come up at least average.
    On a darker note, this still wouldn't be enough to kill off a Tactical Squad (I appreciate that the goal isn't necessarily to flat-out kill, just to push them off the table - but so many armies are immune to or ignore fear/have monstrous LD/have so many troops they don't care, it pays to cause as much damage to those squads as you can rather than just pushing them away).

    Now it's impossible to go too in-depth with this, as mathammer not only relies entirely on averages but also doesn't account for a variety of enemy types; however, I really don't think Hammernators pull their weight in combats versus the vast majority of targets and tend to get bogged down too easily - especially if we imagine that they will (at best) be achieving a second-turn charge. They just don't churn out the necessary weight of dice to push back enough enemy squads within the standard game time limit.

    Now as for the Land Raider, I would normally agree with the above sentiment, but when we consider that we're discussing a 250pts model transporting a 220pts squad, that's just way too many points to toss around and expect another unit to pick up the weight for them.
    When you're pumping 250pts into something expected to multi-task, you really can't afford to let that come at the cost of forcing other units to pick up the slack they leave behind.
    In this situation, I would argue it's 100% necessary what with Marine armies being as points-costly as they are in the first place; you need to maximise every single point you can, and a 250pts model is the epitome of this rule.

    Space Marine assault units are a hedgy bet at best, as they're predominantly a shooting army, so if you're going to take them you need to carefully select the unit and toys they take - the transport is a vital part of this, and choosing a transport that supports their abilities correctly is key, in my opinion. :)

    (Also, I just wanted to say thank you for writing these all up - lots of dedication, you clearly know your stuff, and it's a really entertaining read to boot!)

  7. I'd reliably bet on killing those 5-7. You should get the charge. That's why we're paying the tax after all. :P And in that way, the only way the Raiders make their points "back" is equal parts fire sponge, and firing platform. They all have the same durability, so from there it comes down to firepower, and generally a marine list wants more for anti-tank fire than it does anti-infantry firepower. If the Redeemer had some manner of torrent rule, it would work great, because you wouldn't have nearly the issue with do I disembark or do I burn things? As it stands, I just can't recommend the other two variants at all.

    I think you're overestimating just how many units out there will pass on Ld. 3 or even Ld. 5, and even if they do, you get to kill more of them and pop out on their turn, which is amazing because it means that you get to charge again. Tabling the foe on the charge is cool, but leavs you open to the very thing you bought the transport to avoid: enemy fire.

    Glad you've been enjoying my review! I'm not the best player this game has to offer either, and much of this review is still colored by personal experiences (damn my dice, shooting terminator PTSD), but I've still been gunning to bring the best/most comprehensive Marine review out there for this edition.

  8. Oh, 100% agree - at S8 AP2, those 5-7 wounds will be kills against the majority of targets in a chaff unit, as most only have 1W anyway! :P

    On having the charge - I agree that the first combat we do with these guys will be a charge (preferably one we've specifically orchestrated as well), but on the whole Terminators are SLOW; they're restricted to infantry movement rates, and the great majority of assault troops from other races move one hell of a lot faster, being jump infantry or having access to some other tricks to make them move faster.
    I just don't foresee our plodding friends getting to pick too many fights on their terms, as a canny opponent can quite happily tie them up with a tarpit, dedicated CC unit or just keep throwing chaff at them (or if they're Eldar/Dark Eldar, just stay in their vehicles and run away). Either they won't get to fight anything useful, or they won't get to fight at all...

    Obviously that's a massive exagerration, and there will be situations where everything on the day just lines up perfectly - but I have a feeling they'll be few and far between.

    (As much as I'm aware we're starting to get into the nitty-gritty of whether Terminators are worth taking now, I think it's worth considering that they're one of the primary reasons one buys a Land Raider in the first place - so I do think it's still relevant)

    I would agree that Marines have anti-infantry firepower coming out the nose, but with a plethora of Melta and Grav weaponry available, as well as Meltabombs and Power Fists, specifically kitting out a couple of deep-struck Tactical Squads or Rhino-Rushed squads to handle anti-tank would likely serve you better than two re-rollable Lascannon shots per turn (simply by virtue of target spread; two squads with Melta/Combi-Melta/Multi-Melta will be able to target four vehicles in one turn and likely pop them as well after hopping out of a Rhino or Drop Pod), this would leave your Raider and their embarked squad free to murder any unfortunate infantry that got in their way.

    However, this is getting into the semantics of unit synergy on a wider scale than simply transport/transportee.
    In the context of simply "which Raider should I take?" I tend to think far more about not only what the guys embarked on it are doing, but also how that's going to fit into my wider battle-plan; personally, I think much more efficient anti-tank can be found elsewhere in the list, leaving the Land Raider free to tote around anti-infantry firepower to mop up any plebs threatening the 5-man lumbering menace stacked up inside.

    I'm thinking purely in terms of where everyone is going to be - the anti-infantry Land Raider is in the perfect position to support the Terminators who jump out, whereas your Tacticals might not be; they have objectives to sit on elsewhere on the battlefield and may not have time to babysit the Terminators.
    In the same strain, the Terminators don't want to be running at targets you'd normally shoot Lascannons at, so the Godhammer may well be stuck for targets depending on positioning.

    I just think the other Land Raider patterns work better in the context of the rest of the army as well as looking after their embarked unit, and the Godhammer is too schizophrenic to operate without draining support squads from the rest of your army.

    (Sorry, rambling again!)

    You're perfectly right about the CC stuff above, I may be being to cynical. ;)
    I just have nightmares of Terminators getting stuck on an Imperial Guard blob squad or a unit of Ork Boyz - they'll get tarpitted and at best do nothing all game, at worst they'll drown in dice.

    Though keep them away from mobs and they should do okay. :)

  9. As an addendum to what Corvus said, I tried using my Grav Centurions a few times.

    My opponent consistently finds a way to elimiate them in a single turn using - wait for it - Guardians. Yes, I do cry every time.
    AP2 and a butt-load of shots just murder them flat out. They go down like a sack of potatoes to Rending, and even T5 is no guarantee of safety versus a decent-strength gunline army.

    The lack of Invun really kicks them in the teeth quite hard.

  10. Thunderfire cannons are amazing!

  11. I was told once by a guy that had been playing for 12 years the best players are xenos players. They have to learn the game with the handycap of not having a 3+ save. I've seen xenos grow in popularity because if the ease of use if the tau codex and the forgiving nature if eldar...these armies are a trap because marine players think they work the same way.

    Here's the point. If you play marines and you think grav centurions are bad, can be kited, need an invuln or w/e excuse u want to use maybe u need to look at the player not the unit.

    The unit terrifies the larger targets in the game. The larger the model the better they are, park them midfield and wait shooting 24 inch is great with a grav amp GG. Say they need an invuln save...uhhh did u take an aegis? Yes? Wtf did u put it at the 12 inch mark off ur deployment for when the majority of ur army wants to be mid field??? Ps tyranids incoming grav centurions point and click MC GG.

    Legion of the damned suck...too expensive and for what? If u are taking 3 squad of vets 10 men each well you probably lost the game because you spent so many points on them. If you don't have elite spots open friends you're doing something wrong.

    Wrote from my phone at work if there are grammar errors oops lol

  12. "... They have to learn the game with the handycap of not having a 3+ save..."

    In earlier editions I would have simply agreed with this. However, as the game has progressed, with points costs dropping dramatically for non-marines, and only marginally for marines; combined with the huge availability of high-volume or mass low-AP shots, Marines have lost a little (not all) of their "handicap."

    It feels like a rare scenario these days when a squad of marines isn't hit pretty hard by AP 3 or better or just by a sheer number of shots to where they still loose several of their expensive models.

    To boot, Marines are still playing with pretty much the same rules as always. Every passing new Xeno codex is getting a hailstorm of new rules, either army-wide, or on their wargear.

    So anymore, I'd say playing a xeno is far less "crippling" than ever before. If 5th was the edition to play Marines, 6th is the edition to buy Xenos.

    All things in balance, I suppose.

  13. I would agree however all the xenos players I see are just bad players lol. They played marines wanted the new shiny toys and realized that it doesn't work that way. Overall I think a 5th edition xenos player would do anything to have grav weapons.

    There's no saving face here marines have been strong forever now xenos are still on a fairly equal playing field. Grav weapons are the answer to beating xenos if people don't want to accept it GG lose games.

    Lastly for marine players saying it's hard to play and AP3 hurts do this. Play warmachine, not forever just a few months (6). Learn how to move models play cat and mouse and use models with no armor saves. Once you learn something apply it to 40k. Marine players think they can throw their army forward or just sit static, learn to play better don't blame the book or say they're bad.

  14. Eh, I'm not looking for general accusations on anyone. Some players know how to use their models, and others still could stand to improve. That's always going to be the case.

    I haven't played with my Templar much for a long time now, but the few games I did were challenging. I enjoy having to make my models work to be useful (that's why i play assault), and I claim nothing to the effect that they don't work.

    The only argument I have is that Marines costs more points a model than Xenos. Pretty standard is either a 5 point or a 9-10 point model is the standard fair for most non-marines out there, and marines are 14 a pop. You get far more out of your stat line and armor save than most do, absolutely, which is why they are still a more forgiving army. That's their design so I won't argue that's bad. But I would say having played both they feel the sting of loosing their armor save to a weapon that wounds them on a 2+ anyways far more than most armies do, just be sheer merit of the number of models they have on the table.

    6th seems to have mad that more easy than even 5th had made it. It's not a claim that marines don't work. Oh no, they still work great. But there is some challenge there for people who blindly think they can not use cover or can manage against a hailstorm of fire.

  15. Not sure why there was no mention )again) of the Black Templars. While it may not be much, the Land Raider Crusader is a dedicated transport for their Crusader Squad. Considering the unit is a 20 man block, being able to car even 3/4's of that in a single box is a big deal for them.

    The weapons on it may not be so terribly black and white either. Even though I know i should win an assault against a horde of IG, or Orks with the unit, it never hurts to volley in some hurricane bolter shots instead of the 5 big shots to soften them up. Even more so I've turned it against a second unit of boyz and mulched a good number of them with focus fire so they couldn't counter-assult the unit who'd assaulted the first blob o' boyz.

    Not sure why the Templar keep getting left out.

  16. Good argument well put. I think marines have forces players to come out of their shells yes it back shoot marine lists aren't as great.

    Surprising razor back spam would still ruin a lot of armies. Tau is the linch pin right now if u can't beat tau rewrite the list :-/

  17. An excellent catch, and something that we've discussed remedying. Such a point would have been much better hit during my troops review (where the crusader squad ought to have been). And honestly, yes. The crusader is a much more attractive option when considering it can be dedicated to protecting an assault based troop choice, especially when it has ample room for 10 initiates, 5 neophytes, and an IC of any sort. Furthermore, much as Lt Bromhead suggested, the light infantry clearing potential of the tank is much more fully realized when mated to a crusader squad. They lack power weapons and peppering the foe with a light barrage of shots ought help you win "unfavorable" assault, such as those against massive cultist, ork, guard, or gaunt blobs.

  18. I would completely agree, local metas notwithstanding. Tau or Eldar are certainly a good benchmark to measure your lists against. Not only that, but marines have to play a much more "aggressive" game than last edition. Gone are the days of letting your opponent come to you (or outright dictating the terms of most every engagement). Marines now find themselves as having to play a little closer to fluff in that they are a first wave shock force.

    In this way, I think that's part of why we've seen a decline of Razor rush. I can no longer assault out of a stationary vehicle, making it harder to capitalize on those CC stats I'm paying for over the Xenos. Not only that, the basic RB has become more expensive, and the las/plas seems far less impressive/mandatory than previous. Then there's the tide of weapons which wound Marines on 2s. Many of these tear through Rhino chassis with ease. The final nail in the coffin is ignores cover paired to AP2/3, which handily dispatches the former Razor's contents.